Because Archer mentioned getting banned, I jumped into the sinkhole

Reblogged from TezMillerOz: Nola is an independent journalist at who frequently reports on this page. By "independent", do you mean "most of her articles are based on AR and stuff AR likes"? Anne R. Allen's Blog: "The Laws of the (Amazon) Jungle -- Eight Rules Authors Need to Know to Stay safe." Comments welcome. ARA is linked to the hate-site, yes? Then I guess "comments welcome" is just a facade, and anyone who dares to speak out against her will be deleted/blocked/banned. Thomas Edward Wictor When people send me e-mails telling me they like my books, I ask them to please post an Amazon review. But I never demand it, and I never quibble. [...] However, I'm not pursuing the "legitimate" (snicker) reviewers until my next novel is ready to go. I've had to write off my last three books because the con artists ran out the clock on them, and now they're "too old" to interest the Reviewer Gods who tower over us and at whose feet we must grovel. So, instead of replying, "Thanks for your compliments; they made my day," - he goes "pimp me". Can't just accept the nice comments, has to demand pimping...sorry, ASK for pimping: "Please pimp me?" Also, who are the "Reviewer Gods", and how is that title given? P. Alex Kenlon Part of the problem these days is the new trend for companies to sue people for their reviews if they aren't positively glowing. If there is even one thing negative about it...they're suing the posters for as much as they can get. And these lawyers are masters at getting blood from stones. [...] This is why nowadays I review NO ONE. I don't care if I feel that a book was the best book I've ever seen an author do...I'm not going to risk lawsuit if/when an author gets pissy because I said "good story, wonderful characterization, just was a little slow in the pacing." If that's the way some companies and individuals want to play...fine. They're going to quickly find that no one is going to write reviews and the reviews that they'll game the system to post are going to be ignored since it'll be obvious that they are not the opinions of the reading public. Ooh, she didn't delete that one! She did respond to it, going on about how "writers are helpless", then pimped the hate-site. So basically she ignored what this person had to say, and talked over them. Anne Rice If we take time as customers to do this we can fight the bully filth without engaging with the monsters themselves. They, by the way, love nothing better than engagement. They love the attention and will then pile on whoever criticizes them.(It's my experience these bullies can't take ANY criticism at all whatsoever.). Add those to the drinking game: "bully filth", "monsters". Because you're never too grown-up to name-call, apparently. (And in the brackets, she totally seems to be talking about herself and the hate-site.) And if they "love the attention", DON'T GIVE THEM ANY. DON'T NAME NAMES, OR SHARE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION. CONCENTRATE ON THEIR WORDS. P. Alex Kenlon But there are so many cases out there where the person making the review are in the right. It's why 30 states now have anti-SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) legislation. So it's a problem and one that extends past the online reviews. SLAPP has been used against people doing petitions, people speaking out in government forums and public meetings...basically any place where someone doesn't want the negativity that they may or may not have earned. Ooh, I'll have to read up on that - sounds interesting! "Brave New Bullying: Goodreads Gangs, Amazon Attacks --- What are Writers to Do?" Comments welcome. I predict NOT "welcome". Shannon Yarbrough I don't write for the bullies so they are easy to ignore, but I might kill them off in my next novel if they aren't careful! Author to avoid. Michelle Noble i also have wrote a few books and got them self published. obviously iv dealt with the idiotic trolls and bullies. they just review with stuff that has nothing to do with the book. they like to be ass's. it is like that even in the chat world. these bullies like no one to know who they are. it gives them a boost because there chickens.[...] some people dont deserve to be able to take the room,air,food,water, and other precious resources. You mean like how the hate-site doesn't want anyone to know their real identities? Also, that last sentence sounds a you want them to die. That says a lot about YOU. Anne Rice And I will always stand up against censorship. Deleting/blocking/banning people from your Facebook is a form of censorship - trying to silence their voices. Jessi Rae Obviously, bullies suck, but I also don't think we want a scenario in which authors can "report" a negative review and cause problems for a reviewer just because they disagree. Tell that to AR and the hate-site. Anne Rice (I call them bullies.) I can't confirm all those names myself. But I can confirm that many are in fact notorious bullies. Ooh, "can't confirm"? Is she admitting that some of the "trolls/bullies" listed might not actually BE trolls/bullies? Kenton Adler You can't REALLY beat a bully unless you descend to their level. And even if you were to win there you wouldn't feel much in the way of satisfaction. What I did was take one of my bullies from childhood and make him the model for the antagonist in my first book. I'm going to redeem the little monster in the book I'm working on now. THAT'LL teach him. Writers create the multiverses they want. We can do anything. So you advocate fighting "bullying" with bullying? Athelissa seems satisfied... Patricia Naylor The song, "The Devil Inside" comes to mind. [...] When I suggested putting Prozac in the water to some colleagues I got 100% positive feedback from all!  So you advocate mass-medicating everyone without everyone's permission? Also, I believe the lyrics are, "Every single one of us - the devil inside." Which means everyone's a "bully"? Joel Eisenberg I used to work with the biggest bullies around when I was a special education teacher. As ever, you have my unequivocal support here and I'm not shy in publicly supporting your endeavors. So you're not aware of the all the ableist comments the hate-site approves? J Armand Now that I've found confidence in my adulthood I use my literature to send a message veiled in the flashy heat of battle, or passion of romance. Readers know when they're being preached at, and will likely call you out on it. I find preaching in fiction to be very condescending and patronising, as if the authors think readers can't think critically for themselves and decide what they agree with and what they don't. Anne Rice What I turned up astonished even me ---- long self indulgent vicious reviews(?) with paragraph after paragraph of nit picky foolishness designed to humiliate the novelist in question, sometimes followed by long comment lines in which the bully reviewer(?) railed at anyone who dared to criticize her review(these people can NOT take the slightest criticism of their criticism),and then the appearance of other known bullies to pile on anyone defending the book in question. Speaking of "long self-indulgent"... Also, replace "novelist" with "reviewer", ("bully reviewer" with "novelist"), and "review" with "book". It is possible that some innocent people are on the list. I honestly don't know. So even she admits that some people are on the list could be innocent, but she still sends her readers to that list. Because she's totally cool with innocent people being name-called "bully", "troll", "fake", "monster", "gangster", "filth", "evil". WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? "Just not lest ye be judged"? (I haven't memorised anything from the bible, so I don't know if Jesus/God/Holy Spirit said that.) Anne Rice These gangsters whistle up their cohorts to pile on anyone who dares to criticize them. They can't take any criticism WHATSOEVER. They think their ugly self indulgent attacks are biblical truth. You just described the hate-site. Except I wouldn't call them "gangsters". Peggy Sue Bartlett Stankiewicz Here is one example of my bully's remarks: "I give 1 star the book totally sucked just like the writer, it was a horrible book and Im gonna blog about it!"
That's a lot nicer than the name-calling AR's been doing. Anne Rice I'm used to all kinds of reviews myself and I value the generosity of ALL authentic reviews, whether negative or positive. Then how come you only seem to value POSITIVE reviews - authentic or otherwise? Anne Rice They patrolled the Amazon site down voting every positive review. This is why I call these people gangsters. They engage in gang behavior. If only real life gangs downvoted things instead of injuring/killing people. Are the federal police aware of this "gang behaviour" of "down voting every positive review"? Marleen Smouse And these "ugly individuals" obviously don't have the talent to publish a book. [...] I think authors sometimes shoot themselves in the foot, as the saying goes. (i.e, I have not read Enders Game, even though I hear it is fantastic, he is so anti gay rights, I cannot support him. I cannot put my money towards someone that intentionally harms others, if that makes sense?) It doesn't take "talent" to publish a book. And I cannot put my money towards authors who intentionally harm reviewers. Liberty Singingwolf Literary Criticism is an art form very few people ever master so I rarely write them or read them. I don't have the skill to write or read them. Although writers and their work can be harmed by bullies and trolls, we need to remain very clear that what they do is not art in any form. It's not punk or revolutionary or valuable to humanity in any way. WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CONSUMERS?! How do you know they're not "valuable to humanity in any way" IF YOU RARELY READ THEM? Richard Evans Yes, its called the internet and people are asses. Never argued about that, I argued about the validity of "Goodread Gangs" and the fact no one realizes how stupid and silly that looks to people who don't live their lives online and don't care what other people think. It's hyperbole meant to rile up the masses so that they can bully anyone they feel is being a bully. It's way for writers to dismiss bad reviews and seek sympathy for their hurt feelings rather than earn accolades for their work. [...] All we've created since the rise of the internet is a thousand different new words for feeling offended and oppressed. You will NEVER ever be able to control how people act. All you can do is grow a thicker skin and dismiss it. Wow, that didn't get deleted. Chris Hancock I read that article and found myself wondering how many of you even realize that you do the same thing as the bullies. So many of you speak of how words hurt and cut like blades and what not. Yet rather than embrace these people and showing them a better way, so many of you attack them with words. Have any of you ever sat back and thought or researched why a bully is a bully? For myself, I don't condone the behavior of either side. You can not defeat hate with hate where words are concerned. Agreed. Anne RiceYes, and often the gangster thugs are doing this deliberately and for highly personal reasons. If they are "highly personal reasons", you wouldn't know what those are. Unless...YOU are a "gangster thug"? Anne RiceIn the last few weeks, I have dropped in on the Forum a couple of times and I do see many posts there "deleted by Amazon" so something is working. But likely it's hit and miss. One thing the gangster thugs do is target their critics in the Forum to try to get Amazon to delete them. With the hit and miss way Amazon does things, anyone can get deleted. But I do hope some of them are going down. No, Amazon deletes what they feel needs to be deleted. Users/posts aren't deleted without good reason. Anne RiceWell, these monsters have certainly abused anonymity. But many wonderful authentic anonymous reviews are posted on Amazon all the time. And yet you signed and publicised the petition to ban these "many wonderful authentic anonymous reviews". Lisa Steevesdon't invite the monster into your life, much less feed it. I think we're inadvertently promoting a lot of hateful things by giving more and more attention to them. It's called the "Streisand effect", and a good reason why the hate-site should DELETE ALL NAMES AND IDENTIFYING INFORMATION. Cindy West Amazon already has "Amazon Verified Purchase" tags on reviews. The only bullies I've seen on Amazon are authors who don't like critical reviews. How dare you demonstrate independent thought on AR's FB?! ;-) Sarah Contreras I'm sorry, maybe I missed the point of this blog, however these idiots didn't seem to be personally attacking the author. They were attacking the books. Where do you draw the line between a book reviewer that simply didn't care for the book and one who is just being an immature moron? Independent thought! Anne Rice And I do ban those whom I think come here to disrupt. The page for me is 99% positive. Yeah, because you banned just about everyone who dared to disagree. I'm surprised you keep that 1% around - maybe to pretend you're not ENTIRELY (just MOSTLY) opposed to differing opinions? Adalet Bircan We as writers can be more cautious in allowing our hard-earned work to be dismissed so easily by morons and nutjobs - it is one thing to be dissed by the New York Times Book Review, another to be dissed by a disenfranchised loser writing an anonymous review on Goodreads. [...] Just remember that these people have no creativity, only spitefulness; these people have no work ethic, only enough time to tap out a nasty Amazon review and perhaps an equally-nasty blog entry; these people are not part of a creative community, they usually live alone and communicate with other mean-spirited pathetic jerks. "Disenfrachised"...what's a "franchise", and where can I get one? ;-) Also, Jenny Trout, Shiloh Walker, and the many other authors who've come out against the hate-site have plenty of creativity - they write books, and earn their income that way. They are most definitely "part of the creative community". And I'm not going to comment on their living situations, because I don't wish to stalk them to find out who they live with, if anyone. Todd Barselow I'm still hoping for a response from Amazon regarding the petition, but it's looking like none will be forthcoming. Obviously. If you really want action from Amazon, to buy anything from them, or promote anything on their site. Then they might be desperate enough to pay attention to your petition. MAYBE. Anne Rice I can't investigate complaints against them and urge any who have complaints to contact them. "Can't" or "won't"? Just like you "can't" investigate everyone on the hate-site's list of "trolls/bullies/carpet-bombers"? Anne Rice I would never expect them to investigate or discuss complaints against me on their website, simply because I link to them; and I cannot investigate or discuss complaints against them here. It simply isn't appropriate. Again, I endorse them because I believe that they do good, and that they are effective in fighting the bullies. Thanks for your many posts. So many people have offered you their sources - to BE sources - to help you fully understand both sides, but instead you just believe everything the hate-site posts. People want to HELP you understand, but you prefer to be ignorant. Anne RiceThat's the point here. Never feed, but do report. Report, report, report. Every time you publicise the hate-site, you are FEEDING. Tony Marero Wouldn't these negative blogs be menacing to a degree . An that is a misdemeanor and you can get fined with jail time . "Fining" and "jail time" are different things. I think you mean "sentenced". Also, prisons are overcrowded, so a "misdemeanor" would likely result in community service and/or mandatory attendance in certain courses. Anne Rice Some are reviewers (not all apparently, or not under the same pseudonym) and they compete savagely with one another, apparently, for ratings. "Ratings"? What, do they have their own TV shows? ;-) Nadya Moore I don't think they're out of line calling these stalking trolls fat ugly crazy b^tches. I actually think it scares the trolls and gives them a taste of the own medicine. I saw one author siding with the trolls. She came here and tried to talk down to you. Someone on STGRB called her a fat bitch and I couldn't help laughing. The trolls need a taste of their own medicine and STGRB does that better than we can. I never feed the trolls. I let STGRB handle them. They've been doing it for years and are getting results on GR. Glad to see you giving them support. And you support hate-speech. All you "anti-bully" hypocrites who enjoy nothing more than bullying "bullies".

Norman Dicks: Anne Rice, I know that you are against bullies, but why is it that you let them go on your own page here??? You have posted here about how it bothers you that does not do anything about bullies, but neither do you. Maybe it has escaped your attention, but on this page, anyone who disagrees with you, is bullied. I have had people make fun of me, because of my name, and been called stupid, and much worse on this page, and others have too. You say you want to stop the bullies, maybe you should start with your People of the Page. Sorry for the lack of link: I can't seem to find it, even though it's on my screen. Guess AR deleted it. Athena Parker Yes, report them and avoid them. That is what our site is about. Informing the public of internet bullies and how to avoid them. "How to avoid them" sharing their names, email addresses, locations? Erin Colleen Marshall I just want to thank you for sharing this and for being fair. I know you have been attacked in the past for these types of posts and it's not fair. You are a shining example of honesty in a world where honesty has become synonymous with weakness or "sore-loser" syndrome. I appreciate and respect you. "Fair"? Can't type...laughing... Anne Rice The gangster bullies do talk about this, phony reviews, but I've never experienced remotely any "damage" from a good review on a product or book. Nothing of the sort whatsoever. In fact, most of the books I buy on Amazon have both good and bad reviews, and I check them out. I feel fine making my judgments. [...] I think it's ugly, but thank you for reporting your experience. I welcome all honest posts here. WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CONSUMERS?! The only consumer AR cares about is herself. Clearly she's never been duped into believing a book is brilliant, only to discover that it's...mediocre at best. And feeling like the money spent was wasted. Also "I welcome all honest posts here."? YOU DELETE 99% OF THE ONES YOU DISGAREE WITH! Norman DicksI know there are bullies out there, but I wonder if some of it isn't brought on by the authors themselves. I am not saying that they asked for it. Authors, who comment on bad reviews tend to say things like, "This person just didn't understand the book." Why has this voice of reason not been deleted from AR's FB? Athena Parker They are more known for attacking, stalking and harassing authors and readers in the public Amazon forums — looking up their past and private information and publishing it or threatening their victims with it. They are famous for targeting one author at a time, down voting the favorable reviews on their books and up voting the unfavorable ones which can be very damaging for sales. They also leave comments on favorable reviews harassing either the author or the reviewer to get them to either remove their review or not read the authors books. The hate-site targets one person at a time. Publishing names, email addresses, and locations. Down-voting negative reviews on their books, and upvoting favourable reviews, which can be very damaging for consumer's wallets. They also leave comments on negative reviews harassing the reviewer to get them to either remove their review or not read the authors' books. Anne Rice They descended on some hapless author who dared to speak of her books as her babies. They still gossip about her, kicking her in the teeth and pulling her hair. Had they actually kicked someone in the teeth, they'd have been charged with assault. But they weren't, because no one's teeth were kicked. Anne Rice But that being said, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to dig into this as I have done. You have NOT "dug into this" - you even admitted that there could be innocent people on the "trolls/bullies" list! People have offered you screenshots, and you have ignored them. They've offered you text of their experiences, and you've ignored them. You haven't "dug"; you've just been shallow. Anne Rice I myself have not experienced anything with authors "going after" reviewers, but I do read reports that this happens. [...] I think the thugs should be out of a job. It would only be a "job" or a "career" if they were paid/compensated for it. And most likely that isn't happening. Don't think I've ever seen any listings for "thugs wanted" on job-seeking sites. Anne Rice Norman, I decided a long time ago not to "name" specific bullies on this page. STGRB does do this and I link to them. But myself, I would rather not for a number of reasons. In other words, if the hate-site was in trouble legally, you couldn't be blamed because you only LINKED to them, rather than name names yourself. And you say you're not a coward?